Founder and CEO of BetterWealth Caleb Guilliams

Jamie: Hey everyone. It’s Jamie here with the OMG show. Today I am with Caleb Caleb. Welcome to the show. 

Casey: Hey Jamie, thank you so much for having me on. I’m excited to be here. 

Jamie: I’m super excited to have you be here as well. So can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and your story 

Casey: I’ll just, I’ll just tease your audience by saying this. Um, I am young and look very young watching this. They’re just listening to my voice. Um, but I run a company called better wealth, which, and better wealth is a virtual financial planning company. And my story in a nutshell was I grew up in Wisconsin. We were just talking about the weather in Wisconsin and now I live in Denver. Um, and I’ve always been into money. My dad is in the medical field. I wanted to be a doctor for about a week and then took biology. I’m like, okay, that’s, that’s out of what other things can I do? I wanted to be successful grow when I was young. And so I just kind of stumbled upon this whole like financial advising thing. 

And I just was like, man, why is everyone so broken or country? And so that was like very, like, I’ve always been interested in leadership and money stuff and got a job at a chicken farm. And let’s just say, I have a deep appreciation for the chicken that we eat. Um, and, and then I actually got a job at a bank at 17 years old, and I got that job at the bank because of a relationship. And also like, I would just want to learn more about money and business. And I’m like, well, wouldn’t it be amazing to work at a place that dealt with money and dealt with a lot of business. And then my, my life really changed when, when I was 19 years old, I was, I was going to our local university for business and finance, again, wanting to do something in the financial world, but didn’t know exactly what that was. 

And 19 year old, Caleb ended up taking over the bank’s investment department. Um, there’s a, there’s some interesting things that happen and it just allowed there was an opening and I was the only person in the bank that was like partly working in that department at the time. And so, um, for the short term, which ended up being till I left, I, I ran the bank’s investment department and became one of the youngest people in the country to do that. And I very much have like burdened by the fact that I want to do right by. And so here I am, you know, a number one, I feel like I’ve made it. And number two, it’s like, I’m like 10 minutes of horror that people experience when they walk into the bank and see me. And they’re like a world, how in the world are you able to help me or know anything about money? 

And so I, I had a lot of empathy that I developed. I also am a huge fan of Simon Sinek and I realized that money and decisions that we make has to be very correlated with our deeper root why. And a lot of people, the reason why broke the reason why there’s we have so many money issues is like, we’re not like the decisions that we’re making with our time or money in our, in our abilities are exact opposite of what we actually want, but we’re doing what we’re, what we’re told. And, and yet the metrics that we’re told to go after, um, not always are we actually want. And so I, I could just summarize, um, my experience at the bank by saying it was, it was amazing. I learned a ton. I went and learned from people all around the country that mentored me and taught me a lot about money. 

And the more I learned about money and how to think I realized that people were doing the exact opposite of what the wealthy were doing, what the banks were doing, what the, you know, big corporations were doing. They, they essentially were not valuing themselves as their greatest asset. And it, it was really relevant in the way that they’re spending their time, their money and how they were thinking about themselves. So, um, what I end up doing is, um, I have a mission statement that I still live by. It’s help people stay in research, highest potential. And I like, uh, again, I’m burdened by that because it’s like, I want to wake up every day and help people, RAs. What’s their purpose. Essential is in life. And if you can get this money thing figured out everything else can get easier. I think health and money are like relevant to everybody and yeah, taught it. 

It’s it’s crazy. And so, uh, I just ended up leaving the bank on good terms, but I just left the bank. Cause I knew that there was things that I was learning and that we might delve into there’s things. I was learning about money that were like a game changer. And yet most people in the financial service business, it’s not their fault, but they’re just being taught. They’re just doing what they’ve been taught and needs to deal with it bold. And I think the world is filled with sheeple as I, as I like to call them. And, and I think we need to be careful that we don’t fall into that category. And so, um, ultimately better wealth was born and we went from just me to now we have over 16 people on our team and we’re in 46 States. And, uh, I just turned 24, uh, earlier this year. 

And so we’re, we’re definitely a young team and I’m, I’m learning as we go. But I really believe in education. You know, technology allows us to meet virtually which over, over this, uh, pandemic has been a convenient. Um, but then also like we really, really believe in helping people take back control. And I think this is why I’m here is I think, especially for your audience, we have to understand that money is a tool and we have to be control freaks as it relates to our time and money because we only live once and I’ve seen so many people not control their time and money. Well, and as a result, they live an average life. 

Jamie: Yeah. Well that’s like way wise beyond your years. Um, which is pretty incredible. So I’d love for you to kind of speak to what, what, what, what is like, what is the one thing, and this is going to be hard to answer, I would assume. But what is the one thing that you wish people knew? Right? Cause like entrepreneurs, we leave perfectly good jobs, just like you did to start our own thing and create freedom. And I often times see entrepreneur after entrepreneur just struggle because they’re trading dollars for hours and they’re not, you know, they start this business because they want to be able to make more money yet the business ends up running them. So what’s something you would say or the one thing you’d say to an entrepreneur around their time and money that they need to know. 

Casey: Yeah. That’s a great question. And I think we see this in just both of our businesses and as we interact with people, um, we’re, we are trading, you know, you know, time for money. And so I would, I would write down, um, ROR and, uh, most people in the financial world think of ROR is rate of return. And this for me is an example of like, you will do whatever I tell you. If I promise you a better rate of return, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll change this, this career. You’ll take all your money and put it into this account. And what we, what we first need to get really clear on is ROR for our clients and the people that we serve stand for return on result. Okay. Return on result. Um, Alison Wonderland, this, this story, she’s at the fork in the road and the cat, you know, famously asked her where she wants to go. 

And she says, she doesn’t know that cat said something really profound. He says, if you don’t know where you want to go, any road will get you there. I feel like, and I, and I’ve seen this time and time again, where you get people that really like are amazing and they potentially could articulate their why, what they’re, but they don’t actually know where they want to go and they’re not seeking the result that they want. And so the reason why this is important is people will ask me about debt. People ask me about where to invest their money, that we, I love getting into efficiency, hacks. I love there’s so many amazing tactics and, and I’m willing to go down any road with you. But the problem is, if you don’t know where you want to go, that’s the problem. And that’s why we’re so financially illiterate because it’s like, we don’t really care. 

It doesn’t impact our lives. I’m telling you it impacts your life, but we first have to articulate what we actually want. And for a lot of your listeners and for a lot of our clients, retirement is not like, is not the thing that motivates me. It’s not the thing that motivates you. I can already tell it’s creating an impact. It’s relationships. It’s, it’s it’s that deeper. So money is not just this like, um, sh you shouldn’t be shamed around like, Oh, just habit, because retirement you’re letting your family down. No, it’s a tool that will make you be more effective and have a greater impact. So the F the number one thing, I answer your question in a long way. Number one thing is to get super clear on what results you’re headed towards the reason why ROR. So key is a lot of people in the financial industry will tell you raid return matters, which it does, but return on result matters 10 X more than, than the rate of return. 

Jamie: Yeah. I love that. And so when you think about, like, how do you even get begin to get a handle on that? Because I see so many, and I’ve even struggled with this myself, right? Like money mindset is a huge thing in the entrepreneurial world. And I’m sure it is outside that as well. But I know that’s something that we talk a lot about. So money mindset, like what what’s missing from what’s being taught, because I’m hearing you say that there’s a lot of stuff that’s missing that we don’t really talk about. 

Casey: Yeah. I mean, where, where do you, where do you want to begin? I think number one, it’s our relationship with money. So, so I would say number one, most people don’t know what they want out of life, not number two. It’s our relationship with money. A lot of people either have, they either grew up with a lot of money and they don’t value it, or they’ve all they’ve, they’ve grown up poor and they almost see money and, and, and riches as kind of like a negative thing. Yeah. So it’s like, what? Let’s, let’s look at that. And then I think a lot of people want to chase returns. They want that quick, that quick win. And there’s nothing wrong with getting in on a trend, but I’m telling you like, like we have to look at principles and foundation, and a lot of people are not building their house on a foundation. 

They’re, they’re just kind of going for the next quick, when you see a lot of entrepreneurs do this, like gig to gig, like you make money. And then it’s like on one hand, you’re treating everybody. And on the next week you’re broke. And it’s like, okay, like what, what, what does that behavior? And then it’s, and then it’s just understanding from there, like, should you pay off debt? Should you invest in your business? Should you like what you should, what you should do. So here I’ll walk you through like the four principle framework that we take people through. And I think the reason why a framework is important is I could talk about different tactics, but if you don’t have a framework of how to think about money, it’s, it’s really a lost cause. So the principle number one is clarity. You have to understand that you are your greatest asset, meaning you are the most important asset in your life. 

And when you think of, uh, of your net worth, you don’t show up on your net worth statement, which I think is crazy to me, net worth is that it’s taking your assets and subtracting your debts and creating a number. And yet the person that’s probably made that happen to begin with is not even included on there. So just make sure not to get so focused on the numbers and really ask the question, how, how can I elevate my ability to make money? How can I elevate ability to create value? But then also like, what do I really want? It goes back to ROR is set. The second principle is then looking at, at your life, looking at your time, looking at your money, coming in, looking at the assets that you have, looking at the debts that you have. And the key word here is efficient. 

We want to ask the question, how can we be more efficient with the, with the resources that we have? So many people are not tracking their money and their money’s going all over the place. And if they actually started tracking the money and I asked them, if you’re putting your money in this investment and you’re, and you’re spending your money on this and your money’s going to this thing, and they actually look, and these things are like, not where they it’s like, it’s not helping you get to where you want to go. And some people it’s like a lot of people ask me, like, where should I put my money? Like, some entrepreneurs are maxing out their 401k or Roth IRA, and then complaining to you and I, that they don’t have enough money to invest in their business. And it’s not that they’re 401k and IRA is bad. 

It’s the question. Is this asset the best thing for where you want to go? Yeah. And then some people are like trying to get ahead, but they’re paying 21% interest on their debt. And so they would be way more effective to create a, a debt paydown strategy and free up that cash flow. But then on the flip side, some people are paying off their mortgage where there’d be much more efficient to just pay the minimum on their mortgage and invest in their business. Yeah. So the efficiency aspect is just, you got to have clarity on where you want to go. And then you have to ask, the question is, what I’m doing with my cashflow is what I’m doing with my assets and what I’m doing with my dad’s helping me best live out the life that I want to live. 

There’s, there’s very famous people out there that say debt-free is the, is the solution I’m telling you, that’s a lie. And I’m also saying debt can be the worst thing that happens in your life. It’s not, it’s dead is not a good thing or a bad thing. It all depends on, can you use this instrument to better help you? Just like a 401k is not necessarily bad or good for me, it would not be the number one asset of my choice for some people that are working in corporate America. It’s the only thing that they really should be thinking about because everything else, they, they don’t have the discipline to do. The second thing is all about efficient efficiency. And when you’re listening to this, just be thinking like, how can I audit my life? How, what kind of things can I do to make sure that like what I’m currently doing? 

Like the first thing is just track it and be self aware about it. The third principles. Now, once you’re efficient, where do you put your money? I call this consistency. And in my book, I talk about controlled compounding. There’s two really powerful forces in, um, in the wealth space and it’s number one, compound interest. Some people call it the eighth wonder of the world. It’s, it’s just a function of our money growing over time. And it’s just like, you see this hockey stick growth. And it’s like amazing. And it takes time, but then the other C control. And I think controlling our money, especially as entrepreneurs are far, far more important than compounding. Cause I would much rather control money in my life, but, but the reality is there are strategies out there that you can do both. And that’s, that’s ultimately what my book’s all about. 

Um, it’s called the, an asset and I’m actually gonna give all your listeners a free copy if they, if they want to at the end of the show. Um, and so at the end of the day, it’s like teaching people how to best compound their money and control it. And then finally, the fourth principle is, is showing people the best way to use their money. And so as entrepreneurs, I would encourage them. If they get really clear that this, this is the business that they’re passionate about and they believe in it and they believe that this is going to be financial freedom for them, they should be using their money in a way to make that a reality instead of investing in X, Y, or Z or in this fund or in this trend, your whole livelihood is being built up by your business. And so many people are underfunding or starving their businesses. And so the fourth area is using that money. But for some people that I work with, it could be investing in real estate. For some people could be putting their money in a 401k for some people, it could be going overseas and serving people that that need help because at the end of the day, they articulate that that’s why I’m here on earth. And so the youth use category really needs to be aligned with where you want to go. 

Jamie: Okay. So you’ve said so much, so I’m not entirely sure which direction to go, but I love that you talked about you as your, your best asset, right. And that doesn’t even end up on the balance sheet. And that’s something that I know. Um, my husband and I have talked about because I have two kids we’re homeschooling, it’s crazy. Is this the best investment of my time as a person who has great earning potential? Like, should I be doing this? So I love for you to speak. Cause I think this is a challenge that a lot of people are facing right now with all of the stuff that’s going on. And I kind of have a feeling of what you’re gonna say, but, um, how do you determine, like, whether you double down on yourself as an asset or take that, invest it somewhere else, is there like a formula or something for that? And I know that’s kind of like, it’s a big question. 

Casey: That’s a, that’s a great question. I will also just shout out to all the homeschool parents out there. I was homeschooled all the way through. Awesome. And I’m, I’m really grateful for my upbringing. And so you need, if you want to talk offline about the do’s and don’ts, I’d love to, from a survival, a homeschool survival. Um, so here’s, here’s what I would say is a lot of entrepreneurs are delusional, meaning they’re not making any money and it’s just a dark pit. And, and, and so, yeah, it’s my biggest thing is like when it comes to credit cards, so there’s the, when it comes to debt, here’s the, here’s the formula it’s like, Hey, if you’re, if you’re paying 12% debt, if you can earn a greater rate of return than 12, and you’re like, and you’re certain about that, you mathematically, it’s better not to pay off the debt and go into that activity. 

Yeah. The problem is a lot of people say, Oh, like, I’m going to double my business and they don’t actually double their business. And so they’re like compounding not 12%, but 21% that. And so that’s a good question. I think each person really needs to just get clear with themselves. And so here’s a couple of questions that we ask to help people get clear. So number one is, um, what would you do if money wasn’t an issue? How do you define financial independence? If you had $10 million in the bank today, what would your life look like? The reason we ask that is it is it takes the money thing away and it just, we just start thinking about, okay, what would we do if money did not exist? Like what would we feel? What would we have most fulfillment in? Yeah. The other thing is I’m, I’m a big fan of being self aware about our abilities. 

I’ve taken almost every personality test that you can imagine. And you gotta be careful not to be putting in a box, but like, I need to be, I need to know, like, you know, how I tick, I want to know how the people that I interact and make sure that they’re, that they’re winning. And there’s some people that are not winning in business and, and it might, they might need to tweak. They might need to work with someone like you, or they might need to be like this business thing is not for me. And again, it’s, it’s, it’s so difficult cause I can’t give you a formula. Yeah, no, a little different, but I also, this, I, I call it the death test. I know it sounds weird, but I think about my death all the time in a non, non morbid way, but it’s like, I know I’m going to die someday. 

And I want to, I want to make sure that I was a, a, I want to make sure I lived well and used what, what God has given me to best serve people and, and use the resources. And so all that, like I just think about that all the time. And I go like, man, I’ve already, I’m young and I’ve already lived one fourth of my life if I lived to a hundred, by the way. Yeah. Like it went quickly and I know there’s people listening that are like, wow, I’m double your age. And um, and so, so it’s like, I just, I just want people to live life to the fullest. That’s our, that’s our mission at better wealth is, is intentional living. And so I think it’s just really wrestling with that. And that’s why I opened this whole interview. But that’s the number one thing that you need is clarity on the results that you’re looking for. Cause none of this stuff matters if you don’t have clarity on that. Did that answer your question or 

Jamie: No, it totally did. And I, I, I think it’s not necessarily a super easy question to answer cause it’s kind of situational. Right. But I think I love what you’re saying around understanding and having clarity around your purpose and really being intentional and all that stuff. If you will, for lack of a better word, I you’re, I’m 37. So you’re uh, almost 10 years younger, a little bit more than 10 years younger than I am. How have you been to find such intention and purpose in life at such a young age? Because I work with people who are all over the place in terms of their age and some are, could be your grandparents and they’re still struggling to find their purpose. So how did you find that? And I know that’s not really like necessarily what you do, but I’m curious. 

Casey: Yeah, no, I’ve really never been asked this question on a podcast and I’m, I’m really grateful to be answering this because I do think like there, you have to be intentional. Like I talk a lot about this and then very few people actually ask the question that you asked. Um, and so here’s what I’ll say is, so I grew up, I was the oldest of six kids. My parents are not entrepreneurs, but they taught me to be proactive. I was super short growing up like incredibly Sjoerd and I also struggle with dyslexia. So there’s a moment in my life where I was super embarrassed. I don’t know what I was on stage. I forgot what I was supposed to say. I ended up sounding out two sentences in front of everybody at the time my younger sister was taller than me and looked like five years older than me. 

And so I was just like really, really down and out. And um, I’ve always cared and Ben competitive and pretty self aware even as a young kid. So I wanted my mom 12 years old and she’s just like, Caleb, the things that you can’t control, don’t worry about, like, you can’t do anything about your height. So just to learn to laugh about it and don’t your, your identity camp, shouldn’t be in something that you can’t control, but the things that you can control. And I want you to hear this because like reading was difficult for me, but my mom didn’t let me play a victim and just be like, Oh, that’s just how you are. She’s like, you got to work harder than the average person. So I, I think I could have taken that two ways. I think I could have just been like, mom hates me and has no sympathy, but I actually took that anonymous. 

Like man, like I don’t want to be a victim in life. I want to take control of the things that I have. And when you have that mindset, so many things open up for you. And so I started reading books at 15, 16 years old. I read good to great how to win friends and influence people. Seven habits of highly effective people. Um, you know, I thinking girl ranch, I read all those books by, um, under the age of 18 and then also what I did. And, and by the way, like getting a job at a bank, working with a bunch of adults and being 19 and taking over the bank’s investment department, like I’ve always kind of been an old soul and always been mature, but it was because I read those books and here’s a key thing. I asked other people other than my family to mentor me, I have someone that’s worth $600 million. 

That’s like a mentor to me. And I, I reached out to him, was scared to death to talk to him. First meeting shared with him my why and my story and that I wanted to learn from someone that’s been super successful and asked him at the end, would he, would he meet with me on a regular basis? And he said, yes. And so like having, having stuff like that happen is like incredible. And then one of my best friends who was like a second father to me, that was one of my first clients at the bank. And then ultimately helped me work for free, pretty much helping start better wealth. He died two years ago of cancer. And so I watched, I watched one of my best friends die before, like in his forties left three kids under the age of 18 and saw him walk with intentionality. 

And so like you experienced that stuff and you realize that life is short, life’s a gift. And you also like realize that like one of his last words to me is like, Kayla, like, don’t forget the reason why you started. And so again, that goes back to like, man, so many people are not living intentionally and I’m not saying I’m the solution. I’m not, but if we can get people to think differently and think money as a tool, it’s not just about growing your wealth, it’s about actually showing up in, in with your family, with your business, with the things that you really, really care about. Cause life is a gift and life is short. So all those experiences I think have come, come together. And, and also I I’ve all I’ve had, I’m a big fan of going on missions trips. I just quite frankly, think if you go to a third world country and experience, you know, poverty that will change your life. And I’ve done that multiple times. And so it’s like, I did not think this morning, like did not think twice drinking water. There’s, there’s many people around the country that just can’t that, that they don’t can’t drink clean water. And that just, that changes your perspective. So I think all those go into answering your question, I really appreciate you asking. 

Jamie: Thank you. I appreciate you sharing cause that’s, to me, your clarity around that is crazy. Like I, it took me, I don’t know. I start, my business is 17 years old this month and thank you. And I would say the first decade of me running it, I didn’t really treat it like a business. It was more like a hobby. I did really well. I started by selling websites and I started selling websites in 2003. So it was like really easy to do. And it wasn’t that hard. And I quickly got to six figures and just kind of stayed there and coasted for the first 10 years. And it wasn’t until I had my children that I was like, Holy cow, like, this is so much bigger than me. And then I had this self limiting mindset that was like, well, when the kids get older, I’ll build the business. 

And I kept using these excuses. And then I had a really scary, um, second birth with my second child. And I was like, I cannot wait until my children get older to do this. Like I have to make this impact now because they’ll always be a reason why. And so that for me was like this major shift. And I love that you have had this coalesce coalescence of, of experiences that you’re doing that at such a young age. Cause that’s something I don’t want to say I have regret about, but I’m like, man, I wasted so much time in my twenties. Just kind of horsing around, not really taking my business seriously. And I could’ve made a way bigger impact by now. And so, and I think many people who are entrepreneurs, we fall in love with this idea of creating a business and having an impact and then reality sets in, right. 

We’ve got to be the accounting person and the salesperson and the marketing person and this person and the customer service and all this sort of stuff. And we almost like fall out of love with why we did this in the first place. And so for me, it’s always, I’m always like I’ve got three PostIt notes on my desk that are like, here’s my focus and my why and my mission. And so to see somebody at your age with that intention and focus is like, it excites me because we need more people like that in the world. 

Casey: I love, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that story. And I will say this, that there, there are people in their seventies or eighties that don’t have the kind of clarity that you have. And so I think it’s just one of those things where it’s like, we are so rich when you think about it, because we are getting access to your podcast, access to content that 50 years ago, it just was pretty much impossible. I will, I won’t say it’s impossible, but it’s a lot easier to learn and get mentored indirectly by incredible people for free. And um, it’s just really neat. 

Jamie: Yeah. So we’re, we got to wrap in just a few minutes, unfortunately, cause I’ve literally could probably sit and talk to you for hours. Um, I’d love to know you keep saying money is a tool, right? It’s it’s us that assign meaning to money. So how were you I’d love for you to share kind of like how you can shift that mindset and to, to the money as a tool? 

Casey: Yeah. The reason I use that is I think a lot of times we were like, retirement is so far out. We don’t even know like how to grass, grass, like what, what that even is. And we see money, not as a tool, but as like a, like I want to put it somewhere and it will, I don’t know how it grows, but it’s going to grow and it’s going to do this thing and that I won’t have to work. And so I want people to think more of like, if you know where you want to go. So often it’s like, you’re you have one foot on the gas and one foot on the brake. And it’s like, if that, if that, if you’ve ever done that, which I have, it’s not a, it’s not a fun feeling. Um, and so I just find that like so many people are like, that’s, that’s the example of how they’re going through life when it comes to their, their health, when it comes to their money and when it comes to other things. 

And so just think about money as a amplifier. If you have clarity and you know where you want to go and you and you, and you can use it and, and it can really accelerate things and amplify who you are, but money is not, there’s nothing magical about money. And if you have lack of clarity, you do not know where you want to go. If you have insecurities, if you’re trying to impress your neighbors, money will just ultimately potentially could put you in a hole. We can see that by, by having the, I think we have like $1.4 trillion of consumer debt right now in our, in our country. And that’s just an example of, and I’m not saying all consumer debt’s bad, but I’m just saying like, there we are strapped right now. And a lot of times it’s not money’s fault. It’s not the government’s fault. 

It’s your insecurity and that’s, and it’s just, and it could be deep. It could be rooted in your, how your parents raised you. Cause it’s not, it’s not necessarily like people don’t consciously make bad decisions. They just habitually are, are in that. Um, and so one of the biggest things that I try to get people think about is money is just an ends to the means. And it’s like, it’s just a tool. That’ll accelerate something. So real quickly know where you want to go do a quick audit check of where you’re at. Like really like, just to ask your question, ask a question, like cash flow, like how much is coming in and how much am I saving for most people, it’s zero. Like we don’t save money, but like we need to. And by the way, for all your listeners, like, I will also include, include a free assessment tool for them, um, to where they want to like check out like how much money they need to be saving. It’s really fascinating. So like, that’s, that’s like step number two. And then it’s like, okay, once I have money, where am I going to put it? And that should just accelerate what you want. And so yes, it is a tool we need to think about it as a tool. Don’t, don’t do anything to just increase your money if you don’t know why the money matters to begin with. 

Jamie: I love that. I love that. So Caleb, um, one final question before we go and I ask every single guest this, and you’ve already shared so many, but I still have to ask it. Cause I ask it to every guest. What is one Ninja tip that you want to leave our listeners with 

Casey: Create a mission statement for yourself? Um, I did that when I was 17 years old and I’m mentoring actually mentoring the two kids, um, that Greg, the guy that passed away, um, two kids under the age of 18 and just yesterday in our session, they wrote out their rough mission statement. And I think it would bring some of you guys to tears just to think of like they’re under 18 and they’re, they’re putting words on a paper and it’s not, it’s not finalized, we’re working through it, but it’s like they, they have strong values and it’s really the moral compass to, to like that’s, that’s what I want them to shoot for in life. And so my, my one Ninja tip is get really clear on that and see if you can put it on, on something and hanging up on a wall to remember you. 

Jamie: I love that. I love that. So I, um, tell our listeners how they can get in touch with you. I’ll also include all the links that you share in the show. 

Casey: So, so our website is better wealth.com and we have all of our resources there, but for your audience, if they go to better wealth.com/o M G show, we’re going to give them a free book. Like I’m going to pay for the shipping. And I’m also going to give them access to our free assessment. And our free assessment is essentially like you plug in some numbers and it will give you a snapshot for most people. It’s not going to be pretty, but we at least need to know where you’re at. And it’s a two line graph that can map out exactly what what’s going on with you today. And so that my book, um, that I, that really put me on the map, we didn’t talk a lot about the strategies, which I’m totally cool with because I think what we talked about is bigger mindset, but when you get the mindset, right, you want, you want the right strategies and tactics. And so they can go to better wealth.com/o M G show and, and get all those, all those free resources. 

Jamie: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, Caleb. Thank you.